In Chapter 13 Durkheim begins by explaining why he feels his methods for studying religion are best. He explains that in the past people studying religion have started with their assumptions and made hypotheses that were set up to get the answers that they wanted them to. Also they chose to study religions that fit into the points they were trying to make. Another downfall of most of the religion study going on a this point Durkheim points out is that many religions are very much comprised of things of secondary importance and it is hard to find what is primary and necessary to the religions and what has simply been added on over time because of the changes made over time.
In “lower societies” as Durkheim puts it, religion is more primitive, there is less development of individuality and personalities and religious beliefs are less differentiation. Therefore, Durkheim argues that studying more primitive religions makes it easier to see what is primary, what the religion is truly centered on, “Since the facts are simpler the relations between them are more apparent. The reasons with which men account for their acts have not yet been elaborated and denatured by studied reflection; they are nearer and more closely related to the motives which have really determined these acts…”
This idea makes sense to me, because time has a way of complicating things, and taking organizations further from their purpose. As an example, it would be much simpler to see what the true meanings, goals and purpose of Christianity were in the days when Jesus was alive or when the apostles were alive and the purpose was clear, what Jesus wanted was all that was important and his words were still fresh. It would be much harder to see what was of primary importance hundreds of years latter when the Catholic church had become a political power and largely corrupt, it would be very hard to study it then and see what was truly important to the religion.
Another distinction that Durkheim feels is very important is that between a religion and religion in general. Religion in general has many important characteristics but it is impossible to find these things by looking at a particular religion, it is imperative that those studying to look at many different religions if it is going to be possible to see what is true of religion in general. Durkheim specifies that it is not the surface level things they have in common that is important, not the rituals and visible things that are important, but things like cosmology (an idea of how the universe began and the structure of it) and some sort of divinity, though Durkheim points out that it is a mistake made because of the religions of familiarity that it must have a god. I think he makes good points here as well, that religion is a hard subject to study objectively, but it is important if people are to make points about generalized religion.
Durkheim points out that knowledge, science, and philosophy have roots in religion. He points out that the domain of religion has been narrowed in recent history. That religion used to be the authority on all realms of life instead of it’s narrow domain in peoples lives now. It used to be that everything in life was dictated by what religion said about it, now even more than when Durkheim was alive. Now church and state are legally separated, and most people feel that religion is a thing for Sunday mornings and not a way to live their lives.
Aristotle called the intellectual ‘roots of our judgment’ categories of understanding. Durkheim explains that these ideas: time, space, class, number, cause, substance, personality, etc. are necessary frame which allows us to understand things. He goes on to say that this is a sort of logical conformity that we all must adhere to in order to be able to understand one another. These are the things that we must assume everyone else is on the same page, and therefore allows social interaction. Because of the importance of these ideas they are intensely internalized. And If someone operates outside of these walls it makes them ‘inhuman’ in a way because it isn’t possible to be social, and therefore not a human. It is an interesting idea to think of an intellectual frame work that is what allows us to interact with each other. Think of how much must be assumed for people to interact.
These categories of understanding are found in primary religion Durkheim explains, “They are born in religion and of religion; the are a product of religious thought” This is also showing how much religion is a part of all of life, and how much religiosity shaped how life evolved and is a part of things that today we wouldn’t consider religious.
He goes on to split thought into two different kinds. Durkheim splits it into empirical (provable or verifiable by experience or experiment) and thought which is more complex, and less provable, more intellectually fathomable . He compares them to the individual and how the individual within society. He explains that, “There are two beings in him: an individual being which has its foundation in the organism and the circle of whose activities is therefore strictly limited, and the social being which represents the highest reality in the intellectual and moral order that we can know by observation - I mean society.” He shows that by being a part of society a man can rise above the limitations of his singular physical boundaries. Durkheim explains that society raises the need for the individual to rise above the limits of himself and religion is a way for him to do just that.
Religion is often a way for a person or people to become more important that they are as individuals, but society in the same way can be a way that people go beyond the limitations of being just one person. Religion can also give purpose to society that makes it more stable. For example feudalism relied heavily on religion as a way to keep things the way they were. By saying that it was God that said those who were power belonged there it gave much higher purpose to those ruling. Religion also allowed peasants to believe that they were not just toiling away with no reward, they could believe that they were going to be rewarded in the next life.
Imperfect societies forming the ideals and perfection of religion may seem unlikely, but Durkheim says that this makes as society develops an ideal develops along with it. “For society has constructed this new world in constructing itself, since it is society which this expresses. Thus both with the individual and in the group, the faculty of idealizing has nothing mysterious about it. It is not a sort of luxury which a man could get along without, but a condition of his very existence.” Also, religion isn’t only the perfect and ideal, there is divinity symbolizing evil and bad things too. He argues that religion is really an extension and exaggeration of real life, a reflection of society. Durkheim shows that religion is sort of like an intellectual answer to society. He suggests that religion is an explanation for the feelings we have but cannot explain though empirical, so they are explained by morphology. Durkheim suggests that, Showing that to construct a society an ideal is necessary.
This makes sense because society is not perfect or ideal, but when constructing a society there is an ideal which is trying to be reached. When making something new, or when growing it is hoped that it will be better, that it will be good, even though it isn’t always. This could be part of the reason that there is always an ideal created alongside the creation of a society.
“There can be no society which does not feel the need of upholding and reaffirming at regular intervals the collective sentiments and the collective ideas which make its unity and its personality.” This is Durkheim’s explanation for the physical manifestations of religion is that they what reminds people, what keeps the truth of their beliefs fresh. I think he is saying that these physical, empirical actions of religion is not the point of religion and more of the particular, not the general religion that it is much more important to understand, which is why ideas must be studied not just actions.
He ends with a section pointing out that there is a turning over of these ideals, along with the turn over of society. This brings back his point that it isn’t the ideal at odds with the real, its that two ideals are at odds with one another. I think this is an interesting point because whenever there is war or revolution it is the ideals that are told to the population, it is the ideals that make people willing to fight for one side or the other despite that there is often more pressing issues more based in reality that the war is really being waged over.
The beginning of Protestantism for example this was a clash of ideals, some felt it was better for individuals to have a more direct relationship with the Bible and with God. While others still held the ideal that what they were doing was right and the Church should have control over these things. It was not the ideal clashing with reality, it was the ideal associated with the reality clashing with an ideal that would be part of a new reality.
Sunday, February 1, 2009
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5 comments:
First off, I can't agree more on the part that time has a way of complicating things as it relates to religion. On to other matters, Durkheim didn't seem to care much about someone's experience in the subject of religion, but rather looked closer at how people attempted to make themselves part of a religious community and strengthened their bond with that community. To add, I’m intrigued by the quote that, “Religion is often a way for a person or people to become more important than they are as individuals.” This takes me back to my 7 years in a catholic school when we went to church, the priest would state to us “the blood of Christ” and “the body of Christ” as we received our communion. We, the catholic students, were educated to believe that a part of Christ was being empowered into us by receiving some cheap wine and this (almost cardboard-textured) bread, which seemed so confusing to me back then. Here’s my bottom line as it relates to religious education: I learned a lot of raw facts in school, whether it be prophet’s names, some timelines, etc. However, that raw knowledge didn’t do as much for me as did my times of talking to friends at school and youth groups. My point is that the power of religion really hit home for me by bringing me closer to other human beings and not as much by learning raw information. To conclude, I liked Durkheim’s style of not following other sociologists and not creating a new humanitarian cult. Instead, he urged people to unite and recognize that we are what we are because of how society has shaped us.
This chapter took a somewhat lengthy and complicated view of religion to explain its topics within the text. Religion, according to Durkheim, began as an ancient, straightforward belief that has gotten more difficult and widespread. He explains that religion, in its many forms, creates a similarity between the species. If you think about it, every type of religion or denomination do have some things in common. There is a “higher being” in each religion studied, which takes many forms depending on one’s belief. For example, a new type of religion could be emerging right this second and they could choose to worship a toad because they believe it to be worthy and life altering. I know that this example is quite far fetched, but I think it gets the point across. There is also a manuscript of some kind, a bible if you will, in each religion of ways and rules in which to maintain your life. There are many, many, many customs in how religions differ: Attitudes, beliefs, ways of worship, songs, silences, consumption, sacrifices, love, power, leadership, strength, balance, etc. This list can go on forever.
I think that the main point that Durkeim is trying to make is that religion shows individuality and knowledge of one’s self. Getting to know a religion, I have personally found to be enlightening and educational in becoming familiar with the person that I am. Religion, from a social view, shows strength in numbers. It is a group coming together striving toward a common goal- to live life to the fullest in the finest ways possible.
When I was reading through Carly’s summary I found it interesting that she mentioned that ‘religion used to be the authority on all realms of life instead of it’s narrow domain in peoples lives now.’ This is so true. Sometimes I feel like people just go to church because it’s what people are supposed to do Sunday morning and if they don’t go they will be damned to hell. Going to church and worshiping a God should not consist of selfish ways of entering heaven. Believing in a religion should feel natural, not forced.
This chapter and Durkheim tried to explain religion from a sociological view, which is a complicated yet interesting study. I liked how the chapter stated "Every time we undertake to explain something human, taken at a given point in history, it is necessary to commence by going back to its most primitive and simple form, to try to account for the characteristics by which it was marked at that time, and then to show how it developed and became complicated little by little, and how it became that which it is at the moment in question." I believe this point helped sum up the chapter. It is also reinforced the theory of why in “lower societies” as Durkheim puts it, religion is more primitive, there is less development of individuality and personalities and religious beliefs are less differentiation. Because these people are primitive they don't have many or any outside forces that could prove there religious theory's false.
I also found the philosophy and sciences born out of religion to be interesting. And it makes sense, the chapter explains "If philosophy and the sciences were born of religion, it is because religion began by taking the place of the sciences and philosophy. Because before our modern civilization began learning about sciences and philosophy, people lived there lives by other ways of defining a meaning of life, thus people created religions.
I found your blog to be very well written and theorized as well as hitting the main points of this chapter. Durkheim s theory's of religion in contrast to sociological study are often times confusing yet clear. I feel the only way to help comprehend this study of religion and sociology, like most SOC theory's, is to throw away your biases about religion and society and to step outside the box and look at it from many angles.
Durkheim’s stances on religion are very hard for me personally to swallow. First his concepts on “lower societies’” religions being more primitive is way far off from the truth. If we look at a society that Durkheim would consider lower than his own such as the early Native American tribes we can see the complexity of their religions. It didn’t have just one simple aspect but rather many complex parts, which stemmed from their innermost being outward into everything they did. Which is very much more intimate and complex way to look at it than many Christians do today. As discussed in the posting, it may have been easier for Christians to see the purpose more clearly when Christ was around. However, there still have been many Christians throughout history that may not be as close to the eye of the media but still very close to the followings of Christ. Humans are not a reflection of God, God being capital G – the Father of Christ in the Christian Faith, God. Humans are created in Christ’s image however; we are living in a fallen world – a world ruled by sin. This is the explanation for the Crusades and for the other less than peaceful things done in the name of Christ. Jesus was preaching this gospel on foot when He was on earth – acceptance, love and an equal value of each person regardless of their religion was His prerogative. Yes Jesus knew that their was only one way to Heaven and He stated that but He didn’t do it in a way that was degrading to anyone or unloving. The issue is that humans aren’t Jesus, but we have the capacity to be like Him and do even greater things than He did on this earth through His Father. (John 14:12 reads; “I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.”) It’s a matter of truly knowing Christ on an intimate level. I think God would disapprove of the Crusades, but only God can judge the people responsible. As stated before Jesus was a very peaceful man and the Crusades obviously weren’t done in a very loving way – Jesus wants us to kill them with kindness, not just kill ‘em! That is the issue many Christians fail to see. In Leviticus 19:18 Jesus states; “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD.” This particular phrase, ‘love your neighbor as yourself’ actually appears over 10 times in different books of the Bible. The message is obvious but easily overlooked. We are called to treat one another in love and respect and we are not to do things to one another that we wouldn’t want done to ourselves. The issue lying in the Crusades being that the Christian Europeans were taking out revenge quite wrathfully and were fighting also for rule over the Holy Land in Jerusalem. However, Jesus states in Phillipians 3:20, “But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ,” So fighting over land is less than important to Christ, as His followers are foreigners in this world to begin with and do not belong to kings or kingdoms other than the Kingdom of Heaven. From studying Buddhism, Hindu and Islam myself I know that all of these religions have things that tie in very fluidly with Christianity. All four religions have a very strong basis on peace and love. If we look at modern day examples of these religions such as the Dali Llama, Gandhi and Mother Theresa we see constant action for equality and peace. All three spending much time in reflection of self and having a very calming manner about themselves dealing with matters in a very modern day Jesus kind of way. This is what is interesting about Durkheim’s theory that religion is a reflection of society, that maybe there is a higher power but this higher power may be reflected in different ways through different religions. Personally I see the similarities and I see the positive of religion in general because whether you are Christian or Buddhist I see good self reflection and ideas come about because of religion. Somewhat obvious from my posting I am a strong follower of Jesus Christ but hopefully that doesn’t immediately make you associate me with the mistakes I or other people have made in the name of Christ – hopefully it just reminds of you the goodness of Christ.
Durkheim is complicated. He seems to like to explain something, then reword it just to explain it again when he gets into a topic. In this chapter on religion however he did mention the need to start at the beginning when analyzing things. That may sound obvious but apparently in the sciences a lot of research is not done that way. The analysis of the chapter helped spell out the major ideas, in sentences that actually make sense, unlike Durkheim most of the time. Durkheim mentions that religion was widespread and had no consistency in the beginning, and looking at these more primitive forms of religion would be a great way of understanding the more complex religions in today’s society. One of the few ideas I actually understood while reading the chapter was when Durkheim pointed out the difference between the two “selves”, meaning that people have a personal self and a social self. When saying “In so far as he belongs to society, the individual transcends himself, both when he thinks and when he acts,” however, he is saying the two selves constantly interact and in terms of religion, it is the basic attitude that religion impacts both peoples social and individual lives.
Having people write what they interpret from the readings in their own way is very helpful. As almost everyone says, these readings from early sociologists, philosophers, etc. can be very hard to understand just reading once through. Having multiple ideas and viewpoints coming together really helps in understanding what is important.
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